Antbuster 1.5 Beta 1 - Discussion!

edited May 2009 in Beta Test
pj1114 wrote:
Marcel could you make one more private discussion like this one that the beta testers could use to talk to each other about the game so this can be just for bug reports and suggestions. It would give you less to read and we could talk about the game with out the regular players being able to see it.

The discussion is created!!
8-)
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Comments

  • I have tried the new wasp cannon i like it very much,I would like it to have a little more power.wasp cannon covers much more ground thats something good too.the sheilds look nice,i would like them to be small at lv 40 and then slowly get bigger.also when you have your 9th fully upgraded cannons these must be all the same ,the tenth cannon is made into a super cannon with 50%more power
  • Well guys I have used my ability to cheat to be able to play more games in less time and maybe find problems faster. So far I have only found the same bug that mikey2 found. These are some of my other observations,

    The new board layout seams to be just for looks the game play is still the same, however if you get past level 100 the ants don`t seam to try to get get your cake and get back to the hole as fast they wander around more.

    The ant shields seam to be just for looks they don`t appear to protect the ants from your cannons.

    The shields start at level 40 the size and color will change at each level after 10 levels the design will change. At level 100 the shield stops changing and remains the same for the higher levels which leads me to believe Marcel does not expect people to get much past level 100 and saw no deed to change them any more.

    The two new cannon add some new variety to the game but the are just as useless as some of the other slow and under powered cannons if you are trying to get a high score.
  • I quickly tried the new version and was wondering if the wasp cannon higher upgrades were available yet as I had a do not enter sign.
    I like the shield idea (knowing what level the ants are at) but i am not overly thrilled about how they look. you can't see any of the ant so it's like your targeting something other than an ant. sorta changes the games age level attractiveness.
    I like englands Cannon idea as far as the power upgrade on the tenth.
    well thats it for now.
  • Gene I agree with your comment about the new shield appealing to a lower age level . But I feel people like us are the exception here for the vaste majority of people who play this game are probably young kids. The new variety off looks will no doubt attract there attention.
  • edited May 2009
    I've just tried the new version. Just a couple of quick games to see a few things.

    The shielding idea is a nice touch. I also think it would appeal to a wider range of players and gives you a quick idea of what level ants you are dealing with. I strongly agree with englandno1 with the shields starting smaller and working their way up. ie-the bigger the sheild, the higher the level of ant.

    Love the wasp cannon. They seem to act as more of a smart missle. I wasn't focused enough to see them on targeted ants, but think they'll move around the other in the way. If they don't now, that would make for a good improvement. I think the power issue will be solved with the higher upgrade to either ice or poison wasps. I can't wait to see those.
    :-D~ LONG RANGE ICE :-D~

    The crossbow is a fair idea. I don't like the double bolt though. One hits and the other just drifts away I'd perfer to see a single bolt. Did not have the final upgrade available, but compounded range or frequency would add to it's appeal. I also think a nice touch on the bolt would be for them to stay in the ants causing them some small, additional damage or movement issues.

    I would like to see an option in the future for "armor" piercing ammo for the sniper or other cannons. The idea would be the shots going straight thru an ant and continue on. It would also go thru ants on the way to a targeted ant. Just a thought.

    pj1114- Thanks for using your "abilities" to help us all out with quick intel ;-)

    That's all for now. Will player for higher levels later.
  • bolt arrow bit thin add a little colour ..and different tune when you get to lv 90+:-)
  • I've just finished a nice focused game of Antbuster 1.5 Beta 1, finally 0:-)

    SHIELDS-like the idea to track levels and to keep the younger players playing. What I do not like is not being able to see more of the ants and that the shields really do nothing for the ants themselves (poor little ants).
    I would like to suggest is that only the first ant of every level (40-49, 50-59 etc) is able to carry a shield. Then to give the shields meaning, have them give some sort of protection bonus to the ant; say 5xlevel energy bonus (level 50 ant has a shield of 250 energy). You then have to "break" the shield before the ant takes damage. This would act like a "boss" for every new level. How does that sound to eveyone?

    MAZES-I would have to *Just Say No!* I've played other tower games and mazes get old after awhile. You set up the same maze and the "baddies" move in the same path. What Antbuster appealed to me the most was the combination of fixed (ant trails) and random (new paths) movements of the ants. With those combinations, and the timing of the cannon placements, no two games are exactly alike. That's what makes Antbuster a bit different to play and continue to play.
  • i would like to beta test maze before i make up my mind.that said i dont think its likely i will give the thumbs up for a maze
  • Hi... I want to say that the discussion about the Beta 1 is great!!

    BUGS: I´ve fixed the bug reported and some interface issues, like confusing colors.

    SHIELDS: The idea of breakable shields is very nice and very fair! I´ll review the graphics too.

    MAZES: My idea is don´t give to the user the ability of create mazes, but give scenarios with mazes done.

    Thank you all!!
  • MAZES-I like that particular idea. You can put things like sticks, stone and puddles in their path. It would add an additional flair to the game, additional challenges. Other challenges could also include limited money, fixed money, limited cannon types, time limits etc.
    The skies the limit :-D
    Did the wasp cannon last night and love it. I like the fact (excuse the pun) that they make a bee line to the targeted ant. If another ant is in the way, they attack it until is moves.
    I think they need to be limited to the cannons range when flying around though. They seem to be able to fly beyond the 250 limit.
    Will try the crossbow more in depth tonight I hope.
  • edited May 2009
    With eveyones addiction to get a higher score for themselves and for the rankings I am surprised anyone would want to give the poor little ants a defensive shield. They are already a bunch of immortal zombies who just keep coming back stronger and stronger evey time you kill them. Any increase in power you give the ants will result in a corresponding drop in your score. It doesn`t make that much difference to me but will a new player want to keep playing if you make the game harder to play ?

    I think part of what being a beta tester should be is not thinking about just what we want the game to be, but what will help attract more players. We are some of the best players here, do we want changes just to challenge ourselves more or do we wants some that will benefit all players. I have played this game on other sites that have comment sections and some of their complaints are that the game is to hard and they always get low scores. The other sites don`t have forums likes this where you can find out how to play like this one does and a player who fails to much at a game are not repeat players.
  • edited May 2009
    pj1114- I'd have to agree with you to a point. The first goal is to attract new players. The second is to keep them. I've played games and once I beat the game (this game's positive point is there is no end to it) or reach the highest level, goal etc, I tend not to play any more. I like this game because of that carrot that is just out of reach and enjoy a good challenge.

    *An easy solution would be to add a choice of "novice play" and "pro play". This would give new players a chance to develop their skills, max out the novice level and then move on to pro for the next challege (shielded ants?) to the game. Maybe even make it a requirement that you can't play pro until certain novice goals are met (maybe a level limit). I think this would keep them coming back for more.

    What do you think?
  • edited May 2009
    I did not say to make the game so easy there was no challenge, but does it need to be harder, some of us can get high scores but no one here can actually beat this game the way it is now. I see new names in the recent games list all the time. The names with the low scores don`t hang around very long, they did not stop playing because they beat the game. More likely they thought the game was too hard.

    I think different play levels might be a good idea, but the choice must be left up to the player as to which one to play. However different play levels would be a problem for sites like this one with a ranking system. To be fair separate scores would be needed for each play level .
  • Well, I don't know the ins and out of the software/hardware needed to run a gaming site. If it is possible, then yes, seperate posting for the novices and the pros would be a good idea.

    But I would still STONGLY lean towards limited novice playing. For example: make level 100 a little easier to reach. After that, the pro level then would be available. Then you can have the choise of novice and pro levels with the pros being able to post.
    It would be like pre-season football. A chance to try new ideas, plays and players, but non of it really counts when the season begins
  • I`m not trying to put down any ones ideas, the more the better, Marcel can decide which one he wants to put into his game. I was just trying to say that we just we should expand our thinking to include all potential players not just us.
  • Just tried a focused game using the crossbows. I love the idea, but hate to say, not the current application. In my opion, they are just thinner, quicker versions of the upgrade double cannons already in place. I even see the next upgrade is to triple bolts.
    My thought is keeping the crossbows to single bolts only. Pack the damage in the one shot. For the final upgrade, I'd like to see a Ballista-the mother of all crossbows. Higher damage and range (with either being compounded), and if too powerful with those, cut down on the frequency(a fair trade off). This would be consistant with the actual weapon that is being represented. Ballista had more range and power, but could not be fired as fast. Not all upgrades need to have features remain the same while increasing others. For an additional feature of such a heavy artilery weapon, the bolt would go though the ants to the maximum range. Or even better, shiskabob (and push) any non targeted ants in the way of the targeted ant.
    :-D~ Ants on a stick :-D~
  • i feel pj1114 makes best point for game improvement .makeing antbuster even harder would put off more new players .novice lv would be my choice lets say that they get 2 free cannons or start with more cash this will let them get further into the game like the better players do ,all novice scores will not get posted.that will sort out keeping the new player.as for pro players i refure to my first post about 9th super cannon.;-)
  • Hi folks, really liking this version:-)
    Is it just me or do you guys get a popup which takes you to a page titled "http://www.rstein.org/antbuster15" which cannot be displayed, if you click at the very bottom edge of the grass anywhere left of the table cloth?
  • edited May 2009
    Mulan you are right there is a small strip a the bottom that does that, because you noticed it first you should mention it in the other topic as a bug for Marcel.
  • This chat room is doing a great job.
    Pj1114 i agree with your position of what point of view we should look at the game. The betterment of the game as a whole is and should be the main focus.
    As for Novice or pro, the the version that you choose to play is already a seperating factor. unless when the beta is done it becomes the only choice. I also agree the game doesn't need to be more difficult, but advances are good also to keep eveyone interested. Also you are correct about the forum helping players thru the learning curve. I was only a 50's-70s lvl player until I happened upon the forum.
    As for the shields I believe that the look to appeal to a really younger age (below what even teens would consider) Think about the graphics that they have already at their disposal in the other games they play.
  • I think this is a better place to comment than the other listing with the game in it.

    1. waps cannons suck. They are fun to play with, but are really only a wimpy missle launcher with more range and less damage. Improvements should be made to either the damage done, or they should cause a knockback effect on the ant (1 pixel per hit) away from the attacking wasp. I've got no opinion yet on the poison ones simply because I can't play them, but the ice do bother me. Proper weapon setup has always been 2-3 ice cannons + snipers if you want to make 100+ games the most often. With the ice wasps, you'll only need 1 cannon to keep an ant slowed from the blanket to the hole. maybe the ice effect should have a higher speed cap than proper ice towers to make up for the exteded range? (slow ants to only .5 not .3) Just an idea. And there should be an upgraded generic wasp (aka missle 2) where the wasp simply does more damage, or launches a basic wasp more often.

    2. Cross bows kinda suck. They fire too slow for the damage they do. I know it's only a tier 3 gun, not fully upgraded, but it's in the low end of the damage pool without factoring in the half damage from missing with at least one of the shots nearly every time, and the range isn't enough of an increase to compensate. if it were to fire slower, and impale the ant sticking it in place for a small fraction of a second, it would have much more use...

    3. Flamers still are the worst gun in the game. you get farther with non upgraded towers than you do with upgradeing to flamers. If the flamers had a burn effect that would spread to other ants, at least it may have a chance to suck less. I'm thinking it should be either a perminant on fire (till the ant dies or is hit by ice) or to have it limited same as poison, but to have the ants move completly randomally while burning. the current simple speedup and keeping with their normal path finding makes flamers help the ants more than it helps you defend the cake.

    4. I like the cost reduction for poison. it makes it almost worth it to use a poison tower.

    5. Snipers are still the king of dps. (of course use 2 ice) a slight cost increase, or rate/damage decrease may be in order to bring them down to the level of the other popular guns (missles, quicks, impact, electric 1-also use 2-3 ice cannons depending on your placement of theese)

    6. It was pointed out that the shields do nothing and are rather distracting. I'd have to agree with that. I'd like to see shields only used by the highest level (or levels if 2+ are tied for high level) and let teh shield have a slight damage reduction effect. This should be offset by a slight movement slowdown (same as carrying cake). maybe at half health, the ant drops the shield, and speeds back up to normal? Maybe some weapons could ignore the shield (thinking flamers and poison here) One other thought just occured to me, let the shield absorb damage (up to the full health of the ant) but then explode violently doing half the damage absorbed to all ants in the blast area. (fairly big blast).

    I'd like to see antbuster go to a hex grid, or simple pixel range placement over the current square grid as it would let you have more options for turret setup, and you wouldn't have the wierd overlap on the wasp cannons that you get with a square setup. I do like the mechanics of the wasp gun, it just desperately needs some balanceing. It seems to do about missle 1 damage without the splash effect hitting multiple targets. (of course you aren't wasteing 90 damage on an ant with only 1 hp....)

    You've got one of the best turret defence games here, it just needs some ballanceing to bring the variety of weapons up to usefull levels where you can get nice results with all cannons, not just the major 5.

    I'm not trying to dump on this, I'm trying to point out the ballance probems before it goes more public. Turret defence are my favorite flash games, and this one is in the top 2. (vector tdx is my other fav, but it's actually impossible to beat even if the levels are limited, so it's like trying to break 110 without antbuster glitching....)

    Good luck, and hopefully the other testers can either point out the flaws in my thoughts, or back them up with their own observations. I wish dacian was around still, he'd see every flaw in my observations and set me straight.
  • your point about wasp is right in a way ,but as i see it,only fault is its bit under powered it does look great:-)you say flamers are poor but i have heard it said if you can get ice and flamers in right place they kick aass.;-)
  • Dominion as I see it you have went to great length to complain about everything but have little to say about any useful improvements. Sure some of the cannons su ck as far as getting the best score, but they are there for a reason, to add variety to the game. Balancing the power of all the cannons would just ruin the game. Part of the challenge of the game is finding out which cannons will get you the score or just have fun killing ants with all the different cannons. If all of the cannons had the same power there would be no need for them. It would be the same as just having two, snipers and ice.
  • constructive critisim is a lot of dominion points so i feel marcel will read with interest:-)
  • pj, you're right, I do make alot of negative comments. I do make positive ones on occasion, and they were impllemented (wasp cannon is from my missle warhead idea to have alternate types for missle 2's specifically frost and poison. I did ask for a high explosion as a third with increased area effect, but you can't have everything).

    This is a beta test wehre we are supposed to point out bugs, and other problems. Doing that implys the want for negative comments so long as the reason for the comment is listed. Ideally, the devoliper(s) want ideas for fixing those problems, and I have given a few in the past, and will again once I'm used to the modifications and can make suggestions that will bring them closer to ballance without overballanceing it.



    Englandon, the flamers do have the potential to be the second highest damage guns in the game (impact have the highest potential), and they get blowthrough to go with it so in all likelyhood, they will be the highest damage. The problems with them are the minimal range, the high cost, and the speed up effect. For the speedup to be kept in check, you need about 1 ice per flamer. Flamers are synergy weapons, so the more you get, the higher the damage, and the better the range (for flamer 2's). Getting enough money to field a few takes building up a few missles to get the cash, then quickly selling and replaceing when you've got enough. They do have potential, but it takes an insaine amount of planning, and terrible placement of missles to have the turrets in the right spots for the change over. Trying to build up as flamers is suicidal.


    I don't expect every gun to be able to get to 100+, but I do think it's not unreasonable to want most to make it to at least 90. as it is, there's only a few guns that I can make 90+ games with any regularity: snipers, long range, quicks, electric 1's (not electric 2's) and missles. many of the guns quit being effective around level 60, and a few won't make it past 40 (flamers and barriers). I know this is not a winable game, and I like that part of it alot. I also like the lack of interest so there's no reason to stockpile cash (monitary interest, not people playing interest).


    I know I don't give many suggestions for improvements, that's mainly because I know my ideas are only half baked, and arent likely to actually improve anything. I'm real good at spotting problems, not so good with fixing them. I know what's wrong, and why it's wrong, but withouut the equations used to generate the origional numbers I can only take semi wild guessess on fixing them. Here's examples of the fix for each gun:

    Flamer: add in burn duration similar to poison for damage after the ant leaves the range.

    Missles: knock back, and larger explosions.

    Impacts: cheaper. bring them down to the cost of snipers and quicks.

    Machine guns: narrower fireing arcs (already implemented as it was one of my few previous positive comments)

    Poison: make it do percentile damage, it's worthelss after level 60.

    sonic: more damage (3x current values)

    Laser: longer range (1.25x range)

    snipers: add 100 to cost of sniper 3's

    long range: no mods, they are fine.

    quicks: make range 130 instead of 120, add 150 to cost of quick 3's.

    Double/tripples: make all versions synergy with increased fireing rates.

    Barriers: make the ants much less likely to cross it, or change to % damage (say 5% per bullet hit)

    Heavy cannons all need damage increases, most likely through synergie bonuses.


    That should cover most weapons. I'm sure i'm missing a few, but that should give you enough to see where I'm thinking.



    If Marcell let us adjust stats in the weapons while playing this demo, I could give him more specific and better planned helpfull ideas. The above will most likely help, but not fix the problems without testing to see how far I went with overkill, or how much more is needed.

    % damage is dangerous. enough guns with % damage, and you will reach a level where you can't loose ever, but it's the only fix for some of the guns and makes sence for poison. maybe the % damage is off current health instead of max health? That would make it nearly impossible to kill with % alone, but make them highly valueable for initial damage.

    Any weapon without synergy to range, damage, or fireing rate will be outclassed by weapons that have them. The only exception to this is the boomerangs that are situational where they do more damage to unslowed ants moveing in the direction the boomerag is flying. The boomerangs are dependant on your ability to get the ants to follow a general path.
  • to marcel there is from time to time a lot of talk about cheating as you can see most of us dont like this at all .we even have our own group called NO CHEATS ....its my feeling that stopping people from posting there cheat scores would help antbuster become an even better game ;-)
  • Hi Guys.

    Been off a while, and just logged in to find the 1.5 version - I'm incredibly excited about the prospect of the new version, so much so I still haven't played it...!?!? Need to settle down, get myself a coffee, and enjoy the new challenge.

    Will post my feedback after a couple of attempts

    Cheers,
  • hi blankito nice to see you back ;-)
  • My Feedback;

    Having had the chance to give the game several goes, trying out the new weapons and testing the gameplay this is what i noticed/think.

    1. Gameplay seems faster... Has it been increased?

    2. Shields; Although at first the idea of shields sounded interesting, I now lean on the side of them being a bit of a distraction. I can't see my ants anymore... Is the game Antbuster, or Shieldbuster? I agree with Gene that it alters the games age level but agree with PJ that we are probably the exceptions to the age group and that the majority of players are most likely kids and so the game should appeal to them but at the same time the graphics of the shields are really (in my opinion) horrible. I would create 1 standard looking shield, and I would also go with Denius' suggestion of having 1 shield per ant level rather than a shield for ALL the ants. This way shields are there, and the majority of ants are visible. I like the idea of having the shield bearer being the 'boss' of that ant level, and that the shield must first be destropyed before moving onto killing the ant... That's my shield views...

    3. The crossbow; I think the introduction of new weapons is essential for more variety, and maybe there could even be more than the two in version 1.5... The crossbow is a cool idea, but I agree with Denius that the double bolt should be abandoned. 1 Bolt with more power works better. I really think that an excellent feature to the bolt would be when having the bolt on maximum upgrade - with only one bolt, that when you hit an ant it pierces it and gets nailed to the ground for a small period of time... The shot frequency would be reduced but it's strike should be powerful, and the time bolted to the floor should be balanced with the shot ratio...

    4. The Wasp; Excellent idea again as there is more weapon variety, but judging by the power of it I would still not us it, I'm very interested in seeing what the other two upgrades to the initial wasp will be like...

    Weapons in general; I think that although more weapons will be introduced, and should be, that the top combination will still be snipers and ice - and that is in some way a shame, because all that will really have changed is the graphics slightly.

    5. Mazes; I don't like the sound of it, again I agree with Denius when he says that what makes antbuster unique is the fact that there are no mazes, other such games with mazes get very boring and people stop playing after a while - whereas antbuster I just cannot get enough of, it drives me up the wall! But that's the beauty of it.

    6. Super Cannon; I think this was Englandno1's suggestion and I think it's a cracker - absolutely genius idea. Having the 9th or 10th cannon being 50% stronger, or with some sort of outrageous advantage is a briliant idea. I strongly support that one!

    7. The new look I think is great, very appealing. I do wonder though what the number zero in the top right corner of the select new cannon button is... Anyone know?

    Well, those are my initial thoughts on the latest version. Any comments or feedback is welcome.

    Thanks Marcel for adding me and having an opportunity to contribute. Appreciated!

    Blankito.
  • Weird. The word that was removed was seriously in no way offence. I'm English and the word simply means excellent or brilliant. Oh well.

    No offence intended Marcel.

    Cheers.

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