looking for help

alfalf
edited January 2008 in Antbuster Web Game
this is not a cry for help ok i need people to tell me "on average for how long does an ant remain in range for you with quick cannon lvl4 only NO ICE TURRETS"

im working out a chart that will determin the effectiveness of the quick cannon lvl4 but could be applied to most other turrets
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Comments

  • Alf, why not simply take the dps of the gun, and multiply it by it's range/100. Quick4 will be 54x1.2 (single cannon) missle1 is 40x1.6 (cause missle 1's do about 80 damge per shot fireing once per 2 seconds). Ice2 is 16x1...

    The resulting dps x range will give you damage rateing based on range for each gun that's not dependant on the speed of people's computers, and should give you exactly what you're looking for very easily.

    I hope that helps your chart.
  • alfalf
    edited January 2008
    yah but im also calculating it with a miss factor and how the ice turret will affect the dammage

    course i still havnt added in for an ant with cake yet or range. its still in progress
  • this could help though, i'm also looking for some help on youtube i upload FMA videos i just started but i was wondering... where the hell can i get more to i can't find any other videos to upload with english subs and don't have the tools to upload them. any advice? or should i give up and start uploading english dubs??
  • i have only done 3.

    machine gun
    quick cannon
    missile turret


    after 3 cannons the quicks do more damage but before that the machine guns are better

    missile you might as well forget them
  • Alf, I'm not sure what you've been smokeing, but give me some.

    Machine guns miss with about 50% of their shots over the range of the guns hitting with all of the bullets when the ant is right next to it, but missing with exponentially more of them as the range increases to about 1/3 of the shots at long range. (maybe 50% of the shots missing is a bit high, but it seems right).

    Missle2 turrets are a complete waste of time costing an obnoxious amount for a damage increase of about 15 points and a minimal range increase. The missle 1's do about 80, the missle 2's do about 95 damage with I think 180 range instead of 160...

    Quicks are still the most efficient of the high damage weapons, but I'm becomeing complelty convinced that snipers are the only guns to use (besides the 2 ice turrets).




    As far as ice turrets go, trying to factor them into the damage charts is relatively pointless due to far too many variables-the biggest being will the ant actually be slowed to .3 before it's in range, or after at some point? To a lesser extent, you need to know if an ant will thaw before it gets through the range, but I think that's only a problem with long range guns, and they suck. (just like snipers, only with more range, and 3 shots per second instead of 4.8, so roughly 2/3 the damage of a sniper.) You would also need to figure out if they are useing 2, 3, 4, or 5 ice turrets, what level the turrets are, etc, etc.. You're better off simply mentioning in your chart that ice turrets will slow an ant down to .3 moovement giveing the other guns 3-4x as long fireing at ants, so at least 2 ice turrets are manditory for any real attempt to break 100.

    Hitting 80 with machine guns is nearly impossible. hitting 90 with missle1's is a given (but they do lack the damage to get you to 100 without some glitch bug in the ant movement).




    Other things that could affect your damages is the placement of the cannons, for guns like snipers with increaseing range, it's fairly easy to waste some of it putting the cannon too close to the hole or cake. The idiotic presence of a flame turret (NEVER USE THEM), weather or not the ant has cake (ants with cake move 1.0, without cake is 1.2)... So, simply use best case senerio of the turret being in the middle of the map, and let people figure out how not to plant turrets in a stupid place on their own.
  • as i said it is a work in progress and all progress is slow.
    im taking it step by step the position is the last thing that is going to be factored in

    right now the idea is the ants are walking straight to the turret, around it and then straight out the other side
  • Well, with that simple (mostly) straight line path, simply multiplying the dps of the gun by it's range/100 will gie you a nice number that's adjusted for the ranges of each gun to give you a final damage value that's proportionally correct. (assumeing the turret is in a place where it can use it's ENTIRE range, and there are no blocking ants).

    This won't tell you the actual damage done to an ant, all it will tell you is weather turret a will do more or less damage than turret b while an ant is passing through each one's range.

    say, turret a is a quick, range 120 dps 54. turret b is a long range cannon, dps 36, range 180. to tell which one does more, multiply turret a's 54 dps by 1.2 (that would be 120/100) to get 64.8 and multiply turret b's 36 dps by 1.8 (it's 180 range/100) to get 64.8 (that was accidental that they came out to the same damage, it wasn't planned). In this case, a single quick cannon will do the same damage as a single long range cannon over the time it takes an ant to cross the area they cover. (this will change once he quicks get other quicks to add firepower, and the long ranges get ore long ranges to add distance). This number will NOT show actual damage unless we devide the range by the correct number (that number would be the distance an ant travels in 1 second useing the same scale as the turret's range is useing. ex if a turret has a range of 100, and an ant takes 2 seconds to move from the edge of the range to the edge of the turret, then the ant has a speed of 50 and we'd devide the range by the speed of the ant instead of the arbitary 100 to get actual damage done to the ant while it passes through *multiply the result by 2 since the turret range is the radius, not the diameter).

    ...hmm, I wonder ifthe ant's speed is infact it's listed speed x 100? 1 second to go from the edge of a basic cannon to the cannon it's self sounds roughly correct...
  • now that is interesting never thought of that.....
    gonna have to test and reconfigure
  • The only reason to devide range by an arbitrary number (like the 100 I use) is to keepthe dps numbers at a smaller and easier to handle level. it's much easier to visualize 50 than it is to visualize 5,000.

    as long as you pick a number and stick with it, the ratio of the damages between cannons will remain a constant.

    I like 100 cause you can do it in your head real easy, and it makes the default cannon range (100) come out to 1. keeping things real nice and neat. I the default cannon had a range of 75, I might have choose 75 as the arbitrary number, and used the calculator just to keep the standard cannon range a 1.

    good luck with your charts.
  • alfalf
    edited January 2008
    now i need the costs to get the 11th and 12th cannons
  • edited January 2008
    cannon cost is easy, it's 50% more than the last one, round .5 down.
    1....2...3...4.....5.....6....7.....8....9.....10.....11....12.....13....14
    30. 45. 67. 100. 150. 225. 337. 505. 757. 1135. 1702. 2553. 3829. 5743 ....etc...
  • how many ants per level ???? whenever i play i forget too look/count
  • what do ants have to do with the cost of a cannon?


    (I/m sure you already know this, but...)

    ants start at level 1. when you kill an ant, it comes back 1 level higher than it was. your game level is equal to the highest level ant. you get 1 dollar (point) for each level the ant is when you kill it, so a level 5 ant is worth 5 bucks/points. ants start out with 4 health, and get an exponential increase per level while giveing only a geometrical increase in cash for killing them. this emans that sooner or later, the ants will have too many hit points to possibly die since your cash flow for increaseing damage won't keep up with the health of the ants.
  • To make the game realistic, the amount you get should be somewhere between the level and the health, about a tenth of the health of the ant. This does make massive profits from killing one ant in the higher levels, though, so tone it down every 10 levels or so.
  • no way yellow, the complete futility of the game is pert of the fun. It's nice that there's no mystical level that if you get to it, the game ends. it simply gets so the ant's health is too high to stop them. I think it would be a good idea to reduce the cost of several of the cannons (or increase the cost of a few of them) since the majority have the same overall damage output when you factor in the ranges. The thing that keeps some of the cannons from being competative is the rediculous price of them. (electric 2, impact 3, missle 2 off the top of my head). you're better off sticking with the tier 3 upgrades on those instead of going for tier 4. The damage increase on the 4th upgrade is less than you'd get by makeing another cannon at level 3 (at least untill you've got around 15 turrets, and Ive never had more than 13....)
  • dominion.
    if i know how many ants are level i can then figure out how many levels it takes to get all your turrets and how long you will have to wait for your next turret
    if you multiply the number of ants per level by the level you will get how much money you make for killing all ants at that level and then if you add it up for all the levels up to a certain point you will get how much money you would have gotten by that point
  • Alf, the game starts of with six level 1s coming out of the hole. You kill one, a level 2 comes out, so at any given time, there should be 6 ants on the field. I have dealt with all the mathematical aspects of the game, and it really doesn't matter that much. Unfortunately, a lot of the game is based on whether you are lucky or unlucky when it comes to the algorithm of the movements of the ants. The rest is based on what cannons you have where, and although cost does strongly come into play, it is impossible to determine anything from math in this game that you can't determine by just playing.
  • not quite. its true you cant determine everything by math, but with what im doing i am going to expand it massivley so that once the chart is done i will watch the ant movements and find the "paths" they follow the most often and then design a placement that will focus fire on those paths. and hen i will use my charts to calculate how much damage the turrets will be doing as the ant walks by going to the cake and when walking away from the cake carrying the cake, and see if the turrets would even do enough damage to kill the ants with that paths. and if not i will change th positions to see if it will work better.
  • Sorry to say, but that's going to be close to impossible to pull off. Ant movements vary game to game, even if you place the same exact cannons in the same exact places at the same exact times, that's just how it is. Good Luck though.
  • shaggy's right ants never take the same paths no matter how easy it would make it. And sides, it would make it too easy, you could predetermine all of their movements, and get better scores all the time eventually destroying all point to finding new stratagies and getting better, you just destroy no real fun to it that way.
  • i know as well as you that i will never get what im talking about its just a thing i can do in class besides work :P. not to mention it tests my computer skills
  • i have been playing this game for a while, and have seen that there are only a few set paths that the ants walk, there are we'll say 10 paths that they take, and each game only uses a few of them, i think it was three, so if alf works at it long enough he can cover all the paths, and then create a setup that would cover all paths equally, or even set up all games the same way at first to cover the start, but then when the paths are defined have a set of choices that he can pick from.

    so all alf needs to do is record all paths, find a setup that kills the ants for each path, and then when the paths for that specific game are defined, combine the correct plans by modifying the placement of one or two or so turrets to take down all ants. then all alf would have to do would be plan or at least be prepared for several ants to be between the ant carrying the cake and the cannon, because that has screwed me several tims
  • There is something to the lopsided placements. I've been playing around with cake defence lopsided placements to get ants to follow a set path. if the averagegun pacements are to one side pf the centerline, the ants will strongly tend to go to the weak side. The centerline is a diagional line up and left from the center of the cake at a 45degree angle. Planting guns o the left of that line will get the ants to come at the cake along the right wall. it's "possible" that you can have the majority of the guns to the right of the line, and have the Average placement of guns on the left so the majority of the ants go to the right (right through all those guns), but that's actually a waste since with symetrical placement with snipers lets all the guns have range with no weak points anyway. this was more to revitalize the quicks, and is not working consistantly enough yet.
  • http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/gg262/furon15/?action=view&current=antbustereditfunnel.jpg

    an idea i havnt tested out i just edited it wiht paint from a picture i had.oh and move ice more towards center.
  • that might work. good luck with that
  • what turrets are those?

    i havent delved into the turret tree's much, haven't played the 1.2 version yet, ive been on addictinggames lol.
  • Those would be quick4's and 2 ice turrets.

    quick 4's are simply keep buying off the quick cannon tree (2 bullets-w infromt of the other/not 2 side by side), and 2 ice tower 1's (waste of time to not upgrade them to ice2's) ice is through the heavy cannon tree following : Heavy/impact/ice/ice2. (heavy is the single big bullet, impact is the pointed bullet, then ice looks like a snowflake).
  • Dominion

    I've used an all missile strat to get up to around 75 ish, then went all quicks up to quick4 and got to around 65 then tryed a sniper variant, kinda just feelin around a lil on the 3x3 setup, havent seen any real concrete setups yet, hopefully you could show me a good start, middle, end of the sniper setup?
  • check out the posts in strategy strategy strategy (another thread). he explains it their well.

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